1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Bring back 1.8 and the original map

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by Slim, Aug 30, 2019.

  1. Slim

    Slim
    Expand Collapse
    Princeps of Amnem

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2016
    Messages:
    29
    Likes Received:
    24
    What do you want to happen: To bring back the original map and 1.8

    Why should it happen:The vast majority of people who are active in the community today got their start on the original map. The fondest memories I have of CivWars was on that map, building one of my three towns, and building a nation. While pushing a new map out gave the community a fresh start, it alienated several players, including myself, who found the original map to be the definitive CivWars. And while several nations had a head start, with having masses of wealth, an easy fix to this would be a total chest/inventory wipe, but keeping all of the physical towns standing (while of course deleting every town/nation ahead of time to give a new start to the server.) This will provide a feeling of exploration in the beginning stages of the server as people look to find their original towns/bases before someone else does.

    What will this bring to the server: This old map will attract older players of the server who invested so much time and resources into their towns and nations. This will also attract new players, who would likely be drawn in as the server will have an immense physical history that they can explore. Many people, even myself, got their start in ruins of previous towns on the old map. New players will likely do the same thing.

    Who is it for: Everybody. New players, old players, the community as a whole.
     
    Boywolfpup likes this.
  2. danghannistan

    danghannistan
    Expand Collapse
    Staff Member Community Manager

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2018
    Messages:
    117
    Likes Received:
    135
    The problem is deeper than inventories. The old map is publicly distributed. Anything a person could want — any mob spawner, any ore, any structure, etc — is searchable. The repercussions of this are unavoidable, and keep the dream of having the old map back just that — a dream, but there are other reasons as well.

    We stated our intentions regarding resets when this map started, that there would not be one for years to come. Players have taken that as guidance on this map, and have really impressed me with the hard work they have dedicated to building their towns, that undoubtedly would not shine so bright if we did not have this commitment. A reset of any kind would completely disrespect the effort that players have put in.

    Further, appealing to the old crowd is going to do less and less as they continue to mature and move on in life. New players or the general population are the main focus going forward, and appealing to nostalgia does little for those who do not share in it.

    Even ignoring those factors, the fact that the old map file is freely available is always going to haunt this idea and ultimately be the reason it cannot be adopted, at least in the way you are suggesting.
     
    Boywolfpup likes this.
  3. Slim

    Slim
    Expand Collapse
    Princeps of Amnem

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2016
    Messages:
    29
    Likes Received:
    24

    Let me break this down, piece by piece.

    "The biggest issue with the map being publicly available is that it would provide players with an unfair advantage." But wait, if everyone has a copy of the map, then no one has a leg up over each other. Everyone can explore their own copy of the map to look for goodies and potential bases to set up shop in. The idea that the maps natural resources, Diamond Ore, Spawners, Etc. would dry up quickly is a pretty null point as the map is massive. And if it ever does get to that point, theres always map expansions, which coolsurdy himself did several times and it always attracted a crowd of explorers to search the new lands.

    Secondly, in the time of this administration the map has reset twice already. And as it looks right now, the server is in a similar state of being inactive that prompted the last reset. On top of that, the point that "bringing in the old map is a betrayal to the players that put in so much time into this map" is also a null point, as theres literally 5 years of people putting so much time and effort into their towns on the old server, that just so happened to be swept away when the decision was made to have a new map in August 2018.

    Thirdly, Towny War is a very niche type of server for an average Minecraft player. People are put off by the idea that they can build a town and lose it all overnight through warfare. People who are into that sort of thing already have a server-type they can play on, Factions. While its a different breed, the same line of thinking goes into a Factions server. While Towny War, in my opinion, is much more complex and fun to play, you'd have to convince primarily Factions players to make the switch to a server thats currently sitting at 1 online player. The fact is, the vast majority of the Civ community is made up of people from before the Backdoor even happened. To say that "We're not focusing on our older players" is a slap in the face to 85% of the community.

    My final point is this; Civ is dying. Rapidly. Saying "Oh its just the school year starting up" is bogus. I've been playing for going on 4 years now, and every August-September, while its a bit slower than June-July, is still relatively active and alive. I commonly find myself bouncing around the spawn for 20 minutes at a time and logging off, with many people doing the same, or putting some work into their towns. The server rarely breaks 10 people anymore. In fact, I haven't seen it break 10 people in over a month. The issue is far deeper than just the time of year. Its a shift in how we look at CivWars and what the community as a whole is looking for in an experience. All I've heard in weeks is the allusion to the fact that theres things going on behind the scenes and we may be updating eventually. However, as time goes on, the community becomes more weary of the situation. I made this suggestion because I genuinely believe that a good chunk of our playerbase is looking for the experience of the good old days, 3 or 4 years ago, building nations to the backdrop of wars and alliances. And judging on the response I got in the general chat today, I don't believe I'm wrong. I believe that a good piece of that is bringing back the map that the majority of us got our start on.
     
  4. danghannistan

    danghannistan
    Expand Collapse
    Staff Member Community Manager

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2018
    Messages:
    117
    Likes Received:
    135
    I'll break this down, piece by piece, too, if you don't mind.


    What about new players? How many people are really going to go out and download the ~13GB file for a server they just joined? You mention later that Towny War is already niche, why further turn people away by making it so that to be on an even playing field you have to go and download thirteen gigabytes?! Aside from that, the idea that the optimal strategy of gaining resources is opening up a copy of the map and flying around... It's ridiculous. It just isn't "the experience of the good old days," just isn't the way it was played.

    Maybe a null point for you, maybe you're willing to nullify what you've done here and now to get what you did there and then, but you haven't played this map like some. Some went into this map with "for years to come" ringing in their ears, and they let it sound in their works. You would invalidate their works selfishly to relive the past. Let that sink in.

    Which was voted on... a lot of older players in that vote. A lot of older players voting for the reset. People argued various things, among them the reason why it won't happen now, that the map is out there, in people's hands.

    First off, you are misquoting me. You did a couple times in your response, and I don't mind when it's essentially just a paraphrase in quotations (even though you aren't supposed to use quotes for a paraphrase, don't do that in essays guys), but here it is a gross misrepresentation. I think you're talking about this sentence here, "new players or the general population are the main focus going forward," which does not say at all that we are not focusing on our older players. Older players are included in the general population, not to mention that the operative word there is "main," focusing on multiple things is possible. All it means is that they aren't the only people that need to be focused on. Wouldn't you agree?

    Moving on, the players and the community are two very different things. There are some who stick around in the community that are permanently banned from the server, and thus can't really be called players anymore.

    While we're talking percentages, with a low player count, just one new player joining could be a very large percentage of the online players, a few more joining throughout the day could mean a majority of the players that day were new players! Trying to get new people to stick around... why would you say no to that? Why would you denigrate it by saying it's a slap in the face to older players?

    Later you mention deeper problems... if there are deeper problems, the lack of new actors coming to toss things up, I think that'd qualify. It's seeming more and more to come down to two hardened, polarized, pvp-centric groups, without the diversity of affiliation we once enjoyed, without the desire to build a town and a nation, a house, a castle, plots, I don't know... All the while while they wage their war they wage a mental war with the enemy, logging off if they log on, not logging on so that they do log on, etc, and that does not contribute to a stable player count... New groups, some new blood, why would you call that a slap in the face?

    Getting new people playing is something that would benefit older players, and is something some older players have even said themselves would be positive; a more vibrant, dynamic social and political landscape is something nice to come back to, and would be a rising tide to lift all boats. Isn't that part of what drew you in?

    That misquote is "bogus" and a strawman of the real quote. Never said that it was the only reason, but yes, it certainly is a factor at play here. Makes it kind of an inconvenient time for you to make this argument, lol.

    At points in the past, CivWars had more people in general... If you haven't noticed, the past year or so hasn't been like the four before it. Combine the usual hit with lower player counts in general... it's not a good combo.

    You spoke to about three or four people (two who are permanently banned)... Finding a nugget and saying you struck a goldmine is a bit of a stretch. Maybe you did maybe you didn't, but to be sure you'd have to do some more digging.

    What's stopping you?

    When I first started playing, this was pretty early into the server's life, and coincidentally I want to say at a time in the year when school was starting, though I couldn't be sure since it was so long ago; I would be the only one on for a long time, and when people did join me there it was usually no more than 10 of us at a time. Like you, I really loved the history of the place, seemed like there was a lot going on, a lot that had gone on: complex political structures reigning, tales of devastating wars being whispered, breathtaking builds soaring, curious ruins welcoming you in.

    Anyway, I wasn't deterred by the decided lack of people being around. The world still felt big, even if it was a little lonely without so many people there. I went along, building up my town and nation, getting gear, exploring, getting some friends to join me. Before too long, more and more people were playing every day and all of a sudden there I was getting into wars.


    Are you really looking for an experience that resonates with the one you'd have in the good old days? What you envision... well, it's compromised there. Definitely. There and then, that experience died when a player could possess a copy of the map; but, here and now, this map, the integrity of the experience is unbroken. No map copies are floating about.

    If you want the experience, why "[bounce] around the spawn for 20 minutes at a time and [log] off," when you can go out and build a nation in a world where men rush to war, with shaky alliances alighting the theme, and opportunistic raiders always looking for an easy payday?

    I visited my old town a while back, the first one I had, when there weren't so many people playing. My memories there weren't colored by interactions with others, wars, friendships, so on. They were peaceful memories. It's relaxing, therapeutic even, just building, playing the game. I pass by an old building, I say, "hey I remember when I built that building," it's great. You aren't making any memories right now, jumping around spawn, and if you continue to just cling to your old ones, hoping the past will become the present, well... you never will make any new ones. Why not give it a shot?




    Or not... maybe take the time to finish that Civ5 mod? :p
     
    Boywolfpup and MooseBobby like this.
  5. Cody

    Cody
    Expand Collapse
    Part of the elite nexus retard squad
    Donator

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2017
    Messages:
    149
    Likes Received:
    87
    To me- the jump from 1.8 to 1.13 I was adamantly against, I was against resetting the map I had so many memories of, but, it turned out alright. It might seem like I'm sucking off staff because I just got unbanned, but it genuinely turned out good, despite the rough parts the server went through.
     
  6. Breeze

    Breeze
    Expand Collapse
    Donator

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2018
    Messages:
    35
    Likes Received:
    55
    civexit means civexit. nuff said.
     
    Cody likes this.
  7. Boywolfpup

    Boywolfpup
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2017
    Messages:
    82
    Likes Received:
    18
    Yeah come on Slim, I'm waiting on that too!! :(
     
    MooseBobby likes this.